My fingers worked by way though college!

Thank the Lord. I have transcribed the major points of the Thom Hartmann & Bruce Fein discussion this morning. (Refer to previous post on how to play the audio).

Executive order for confiscation of property (07.17.07) discussion.

(my comments in red).

Hartmann -
Short cut - or - idiot example of this EO (Executive Order).

If we have a conversation to discuss the prohibitions of this order - we are violators (in conspiracy) of this EO.

Item B in the Executive Order.

You are guilty if the President + Sec of Treasury with consultation of the Secretary Defense (Gates) & Secretary of State (kind-of-sleazy Rice) decide you have violated the prohibitions defined in this EO. Here we go, noticeably missing are the old "checks & balance" of convening with Congress and/or with the Judicial branch. How convenient! And who is our Judge & Jury.

1. Bush
2. Secretary of State (Kind of sleazy Rice)
3. Secretary of Defense
4. Secretary of Treasury.

Fein

High water mark of the monarchial Bush & Cheney regime they assert for all the world that every square inch of USA is a battle field + therefore, they can order the military of the USA to shoot rockets (whatever) to kill any one that they deem is out to get them or is Al Quadea affiliated. If their decision is erroneous - hell that is collateral damage.

What their theory on the current war of terrorism is about is making where you are sitting and I am standing a battlefield where the military can come in and shoot & destroy if they have some ground that we are affiliated with Al Quada. (my comments - is this Chernoff's "gut feeling" here??)

It is a frightening exercise of military jurisdiction beyond anything conceived of by any previous ruler of the entire world including Julius Caesar.

Double Jeopardy

Fein

Impeachment (Congress) and conviction of grounds of Impeachment (Senate) + removal from Office (CAN WE DREAM) is not a criminal punishment in the eyes of the Founding Fathers. After removal from office would still be vulnerable to criminal prosecution, (Gitmo works for me). That is the reason that President Ford pardoned President Nixon because He was vulnerable to indictment by then Special Prosecutor R. Jaworski.

Hartmann

But Nixon had NOT been impeached. Hartmann thought an impeachment (Congress) & trial in the Senate, and are exonerated, which he assumes apparently Bush would be right now, - i.e. if they cannot get enough votes to stop the up/down of the Iraq War bill Thommie speculates they could not get enough votes in the Senate for impeachment - which equals conviction. Even if Bush is exonerated in the Senate, as Bill Clinton was (bring back the BLOW JOB) isn't that considered a trial???

Fein

Nein, nada, nyet. Double Jeopardy is viewed as being tried twice for a CRIMINAL prosecution. (sls: and since Impeachment (Congress, Senate & Removal is not CRIMINAL per the Founding Fathers).

Therefore, he could be tried (criminal) a second time. (sls: of course all the scum bags will be in Paraguay with no extradition.)

Some of the remedies that Congress might undertake to rein Bush in might be futile. Remember, Bush can sign a bill then ignore those parts of the Bill that he DEEMS un-Constitutional. There are some measures that may be done short of impeachment that may be helpful.

Congress may grow a pair of balls by: (sls)

• Congress can by Stature eliminate Mil Commission
• Congress can use the power of the purse to eliminate any spying that is contradictory to FISA.
• Congress can use the power of the purse prevent utilization of the Executive Power to identify people as terrorists based on secret evidence.
  

Doesn't this imply that Congress does not understand the issue as you and are discussing it, but rather Congress is concerned that an Impeachment would be a political event? Or, they are concerned that Impeachment would be perceived as Political Event.

Fein

Yep I am up there every day in Congress and the ignorance that the typical member of Congress has about Constitutional philosophy of checks and balances is staggering - probably less than a HS student. (sls - which given how the last decade we have "dumbed down" our children's education - that is an UNBELIEVABLE statement. )

So Congress does not appreciate how their role is being reduced to wallpaper. And, other than having an occasional appearance on CSpan, they decide virtually nothing of importance because the President is asserting the prerogative of the Legislative, Judicial & Executive branches all at once. And the President knows the shallowness of Congress in that they think "if we attack the President it will be seen as partisan - the attitude of Pelosi - and we might loose our majority. President Bush wraps himself with the American flag beating the drums of terrorism as he abuses the Constitution. We, Congress, do not know how to describe the menace Bush is doing to the Constitution, therefore, we would rather be SILENT.

Hartmann tracks back to 80's when conservative went vigorously after public school education & civic education. Net - we have a Congress of Civic Education Retards.

Reference: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/orders/


General summary comments: Can we get a Civics Professor to go to Congress & teach these sob's???

Impeachment For 9/11/07.